E6 | How To Take Your Power Back with Ian Morris

Mike Schwartz: Enjoy this one. and the last ⁓ I wanted to mention is Ian was so kind to send along a track, so stick around to end of the conversation ⁓ and can hear some of his very powerful music. ⁓ Let's to show. Before we jump in, I want to give some flowers to today's guest, Ian Morris of Listening to Smile and My Creative Control. Ian is one of the original gangsters of direct-to-fan creative independence. Long before creators were talking about ownership, niche audiences or niche for my American friends, and building outside the algorithm Ian was already living in. What started as a deeply intentional music project turned into something wild. Over 10 straight years of releasing an album, a full album, every single month. Think about that for a second. That kind of creative output doesn't happen without systems, discipline, alignment, and most importantly, creative control. This conversation goes deep into what becomes possible when artists stop chasing the machine and start building a sustainable creative life around their actual values.

Ian Morris: My name is Ian Morris and I'm from to Smile and you are listening to MusicFit Radio.

Mike Schwartz: for people who don't know you yet, who are you? What's your background in music? Who is this Ian Morris caricature that I've known for a few years?

Ian Morris: Thank you. Yeah. I'm a connoisseur of music, man. I love many different styles of music and I was just fortunate enough to grow up in a household where I was subjected to a lot of music, you know, everything from ⁓ like Coltrane and Davis to ⁓ The Beatles and Led you know, it's just a lot of different varieties. And so for Music is my passion. It's like everything that I live for, know, live, breathe and eat it, know, on a daily basis. You it's for 10 years, I devoted an album every single month for 10 years. And so just gives you an idea of kind of the dedication to the craft and what I've sought to do just to grow through those experiences. So I'm the founder of Listening to Smile. It's a unique sound healing company really specializes in music licensing. ⁓ for holistic practitioners. And so yeah, it's just kind of, it's what working on day in and day out. It's my passion, so.

Mike Schwartz: Yeah, dude, I mean, we've had multiple, you're a returning champion of the podcast here. So it's like, I've gotten to know you through Listening to Smile, and we've talked briefly about where it all began. And the thing that's most interesting to me about where that project came from and how it was born is how consistent you were for so many years, and have been. So it's something when you look at... the examples nowadays where you get these like 30 day beat, beat a day kind of thing. I'm like, yeah, I remember my first beer. Why don't we get a glimpse into what, what listening to smile, where did that begin? And talk to me about consistency with that project.

Ian Morris: Yeah. Yeah. I think it started because I was hosting events in person, know, sound baths, and I was playing instruments live, know, peep-ah, the u-chin, guitar, know, singing bowls, forks, the whole thing. And I just started noticing lot of turnover on people coming to those events. And I would also attend other sound healer events and I would see ⁓ Kind of the same thing. People would come two or three sessions and then they would kind of flake out. so one of my musician friends, I just asked him, said, dude, you're not going to hurt my feelings. Just tell me how come you stopped coming? ⁓ he was like, man, I'm just going to be honest with you. He was like, singing bowls, it's a note over over. He's like, once you've heard it once, you've heard It's like, okay, I'm good. You know? And so... ⁓ really, ⁓ he's a musician, it's a little different than just an average listener who's going for meditation, but I really took to heart what he said. And I was like, started really deep diving on my thoughts of what makes music meditative and what makes it functional for those types of settings and And I started about Bonnaroo, Burning Man, and all these experiences that people go to. they have these spiritual and emotional and creative experiences and they come back and they're telling their small town or their hometown, know, man, I was there for a week and a half and you they're just going off on this on this experience and no one else is really matching their vibration. And I think that's where I really dialed in. I was like, that is what I want to create, but not so chaotically. I want to do it in a subtly epic way. And so that that word, that that phrase subtly epic. became something that really stuck with me and I wanted to create an experience in person would allow people to have that experience, a spiritual, creative, religious experience with music, but then they could take it with them, know, something that journeyed home with them, they could purchase it. A of the Singing Bulls experiences, they don't the same. on tape, you know, ⁓ you'll hear that a lot and like there's certain bands that perform well live and they just have this energy and it's hard sometimes to capture that on tape. And so I was thinking like, how can we really make the first effort, you know, our first focus and to creating a recorded experience that then can be shared pre-recorded in a live setting and then really focus on the experience of the individual. on the experience being taken away from not this experience, but something that they can use to inspire a daily practice of shifting consciousness, shifting mindset. And that's really gave birth to it, that whole idea of creating an experience. And then from there, it just kind of grew into ⁓ adding human design. astrology and kind of channel channelers and like making them a part of coming up with the themes and creating an album that was in alignment with the monthly energy. And so that was the crazy commitment that I did that made me go into making an album every single month so that it was in alignment with the astrology and the collective energy. So 10. Yeah, this is the 11th year. Yeah. So it's wild, man.

Mike Schwartz: Yeah. You And how many years? you Dude, that is just like when we talk about the ⁓ of them that comes up is consistency, is connection. I mean, from ⁓ what have learned of you and ⁓ our friendship is you are so connected, dude. You are so connected, you are so consistent, you're an engine. You're just absolute machine. I can understand, and this is why it ties in really, really nicely with what we're doing over at MusicFit here, and that's why I was so happy to hear of the new project, is that I can only imagine that vibe of music wouldn't really fit the traditional music model. What were you seeing that ⁓ quite right with you?

Ian Morris: Well, I think just that artists weren't able to make a living at all. mean, was very, venues had a lot of victimization that they were passing on to the artists that we were having to jump through hoops to work with venues and live, know, and that wasn't untrue with yoga studios either, you know, like going into the yoga studio experience a bar, you know, like playing as a band. so there was a lot of people passing the buck, know, the streaming services, the venues, the promoters, the marketing, you know, there's I know that spent 10, $15,000 on marketing and absolutely no return on anything that they put money into. And so you seeing everyone pass the buck, everyone blames everyone else for why it's not working, but it just, was plain to me that it was just not working across the board. There was no one that was really. ⁓ getting results unless there was a pay-all-up from millions of dollars from record labels that wanted it to be seen. I just having conversations with myself, there has to be something different and it's not going to be on the same path or the same outlets that are providing this existence. And so, yeah, I loved how Bandcamp allowed you to price your work and put it out there relatively easy. And I liked how I could come up with a direct to consumer distribution and put my in a privatized state and then allow that to actually make income and to build courses, workshops, and the albums monthly into a licensing for affiliates. And it really separated. myself from the musicians. And I think the biggest standpoint was to really separate myself from music as like iTunes, know, And I think that in my opinion, it's what artists need to do more of today is to separate themselves and realize like even though you might not be doing niche like I am, you know, have a niche, your fan base is a niche and like to treat that as such. just as much as I treated the meditation market as my niche and the practitioners as my niche, your fans are your niche and they have a specific thing they're looking for, they're coming to you for that. So now how can you take that off of the track rails that are guiding you to nothing create new destination?

Mike Schwartz: So do you feel that that's probably the biggest, I guess, misunderstanding for most artists about the whole streaming culture and monetization right now? Just the fact that they're just throwing music out into a void, but they actually have to find a very specific demographic of people that will be their fans.

Ian Morris: Yeah, the only way I can really relate this from world, right, is like meditation. If you are talking to a new practitioner that's wanting to get into doing guided meditations, a lot of them will start, in my opinion, ⁓ will start and this generalized approach. And I'll say, you know, my suggestion is that you get very specific about what it is that you do. And they're saying, they would say things like, well, I don't want to exclude people. And I said, no, you most definitely want to exclude people. You want to cut out the people who don't need to be there because you're going to make a lot of headaches for yourself of people who want you to be something that you're not. so by cutting out those people from the beginning, you're already getting to where you're really getting to the meat and potatoes of you're wanting to do. And so I think like, yes, niche, in my opinion, boutique and niche and know micro communities I think are going to be in the next five years especially because the way everything is getting centralized I don't think a lot of musicians put a lot of thought into the infrastructure of what distributes their music to people once they have you know they the elusive they ⁓ they have that where there's just very few options for you to reach people really dictating and controlling your life and your livelihood. And I think that the more that you can do to separate yourself from the system, create micro communities, micro connections, what I have seen in my experience is that those will tenfold give you yields and harvest that are unlike anything that you see on the mainstream level. Yeah.

Mike Schwartz: Yeah, dude, and direct connection to what we're establishing inside of the MFL, a decentralized thing, even as far as leadership, and when we start to approach business like man, we open up so many doors. And this is actually a really great segue right into your current project

Ian Morris: Thank

Mike Schwartz: there a specific where you realized you needed a different system to more people?

Ian Morris: Yeah, so always loved vinyl records and like conceptual albums that you could open up and they would have artwork and things that you could read and dive into and just explore a universe of creative and music, poetry, know, books and websites and videos. And so I that interaction with that multimedia And it's probably because I'm older and most people are just used to, you know, streaming mp3s, but that experience, that tangible I started, I created something, what I call it an expanded experience. So it was a companion to my albums each month. So inside of those albums, I would put the write-ups from ⁓ the the human design expert, and the astrologer so that my fans could read what was going on for that month. But then they also had videos that they could watch and we even had a vault tapes, which was kind of like unreleased things and even the practitioners talking about the energy so you could listen to audio from that. So you had this whole experience where you got this album and then these external experiences to dive into to learn more about the creative energy. so. ⁓ I just loved it. was so much fun to create a universe for people to explore. was hidden links, every image was clickable. You could go into it thinking of like an escape room and a scavenger hunt put into a document that was in a digital world. It was digital and it would be viewed like an app or a website, but it was ⁓ an It was something more than just streaming the music. ⁓ It really...

Mike Schwartz: Yeah.

Ian Morris: meant to establish a connection between the artist and fan again, instead of letting Spotify dictate that, you know, erasing of the artist in that process. when did that, Dr. B, who he's produced Coltrane, Michael Jackson, DJ India Arie, a bunch of, you know, really famous people. He, we had a I saw him on Instagram. He has a thing that he's developed called Music Medicine. I created the thing that I trademarked, Frequency-Minded Music. So we just had a conversation about what he's doing and what I'm doing. it just led into a really interesting, where started a company called My Creative Control. And control spelled like the control button on the keyboard, like CTRL. But basically that started because he to bring this experience to people in the industry that he's working with. So we've been having some conversations about developing ⁓ experiences for some pretty high level people. can't drop names yet, but there's really neat people that are planning work with this. We're working currently right now. Dr. B has a physical book, a digital audio book, and an audio album digital that he's out. We've created an experience that people can ⁓ go through to subjected and experience the awareness of all the things that he's been creating. Yeah, it's just, it's something that was a lot of fun to the research and development and kind of the trials and ⁓ last four and then to develop it to a system and a platform and then move that to where now other people can partake in it. It's pretty cool.

Mike Schwartz: Yeah, try to describe it to my friends and to the community, I'm like, think of like, choose your own adventure, digital form, And when you showed me the site and just some of these pieces, I was like, what on earth, man? Nobody even knows what vinyl is. Nobody understands that. And while we're on the topic, what was your favorite kind of conceptualist album? Like when you get it and you just put it in your hand and you just got to go through it. What was that album for you?

Ian Morris: ⁓ that's tough. ⁓ when I think that, when you said that the first thing that came to mind was like some of the Led Zeppelin albums that, you know, had the rotating wheels and, you know, the interactive parts and like, so I think about, ⁓ you know, like when I was first listening to music and I think definitely like the some of the Beatles albums and like Sergeant Peppers when you pulled that out and started. ⁓

Mike Schwartz: course.

Ian Morris: you getting into that but but definitely like houses of the holy and a lot of different ⁓ let's have one you know albums that were just really really cool with the artwork and just the concepts of how they put together photo and then the the photo of all through the experience of the artwork and album and it's just ⁓ very very cool stuff you know ⁓

Mike Schwartz: Yeah, to me it really connects like so much more than just a music. Because many of us as artists, that's a big blanket term. Like I around with graphics, I play around with physical media, I play around with photography, I play around with writing, I play around with all of these different creative outlets. ⁓ Music one of them that I would say is my primary, but they all kind of like sit under that. ⁓

Ian Morris: We'll

Mike Schwartz: So when you can put a whole package together, as an artist myself, it's just something that I'm really proud of where it's like, ⁓ this is really cool. And maybe there's like, you know, hidden songs, even that type of thing. That was the coolest thing. The first time I remember like really being impacted by like a hidden song that I was not ready for was on the Blue album by Third Eye Blind. ⁓ Darwin, the song, it comes like three minutes after. And I'm like, that is bonkers. It's so cool.

Ian Morris: Hmm. Yeah.

Mike Schwartz: That type of thing, I think has been lost with the streaming game. And I'm really, really happy to hear and dive in. of the questions I first had was like, okay, how does it than like your typical link in Bio page?

Ian Morris: Yeah, what really focused on is graphics heavy. So it's like a visual experience first and then the functionality is built in around the visual experience. all the are always clickable. They're leading you to new experiences. So there's a lot to explore in these documents, but it's also not overwhelming. So what it's is an image that would just be a placeholder for eye candy before now has a function to it. ⁓ And it can Hidden password, password protected, hidden link. could be something that takes you down a rabbit hole that's completely just a companion piece to the music, but it wants you to experience a conspiracy theory or it wants you to look at a new book, new book title that just came out, whatever that ⁓ artist wants you to know. Or it actually links directly to their social media, their YouTube, their for buying an experience or ⁓ a

Mike Schwartz: Yeah!

Ian Morris: payment gateway. So there's just so much you can do. There's games. But I would say the biggest thing that makes it different is that there's less scrolls. If you look at today's websites, 87 % of people are taking in content through their mobile phone. That's a huge number, right? So all the websites are laid out first with the focus of desktop landscape, which then it's forced to a portrait. And if you look at some of the desktops, They look great, but then you go to portrait and you're just scrolling and scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. We try to make our experiences where it's about seven, 10 scrolls, but maybe seven, six, seven scrolls. And there's a lot of information there, a lot to explore, and it's just a lot of fun. So it's a completely different format. And it's begging for engagement the viewer. It's really to have ⁓ a fun again. ⁓ you know, it's inviting that fun playfulness of a child into that experience.

Mike Schwartz: think that's a huge part. the skeptic artist out there, like somebody sitting there going like, cool, what does that do for me? Like what happens? What actually changes for an artist once they start owning the relationship directly?

Ian Morris: Well, I think there's so many artists who, you know, it's interesting because you and I both are, you know, I'm a poet, a musician, a visual artist, painter, you know, I do web design, all kinds of graphic design. So when I make a piece of music, I already see images in my head. And I think what's interesting is if artists started getting more involved in that process, even if they're not directly doing it, but having more of a voice. I think our platform is really begging for artists to take their power back. So it's called My Creative Control, meaning that you have these skill sets that are shapers and movers of reality, but you're letting other people dictate the energy behind how that's being conducted or distributed. And you're really missing out on a lot of the power you have as an artist. One my friends who was a street artist and amazing poet and artist and even with a little bit of music, Cedric Emoja, remember him saying that the last revolutionaries on the planet are artists, are creatives, because the people are not owned by the system actually have an independent voice and they have the ability to have their own independent press, whether that's music, poetry, or visual art ⁓ that can influence consciousness with. And I just thought that was such an amazing statement.

Mike Schwartz: I absolutely love that and very much agree and that's a huge philosophy. And when we talk about that too in MusicFit, especially the MFL, that's the whole point is to give that artist the ability live a sustainable life on their terms, not energy dictated by somebody else, maybe it's a label, maybe it's streaming platform, maybe even at a basic level, people don't consider it, but the...

Ian Morris: Thank you.

Mike Schwartz: the algorithm, like you're allowing, it used to be, like I've heard this numerous times in the last couple of weeks, it used to be social media, now it's interest media, right? Because based off of anybody in the world is gonna get it if you are eating a burger and a milkshake, somebody who likes burgers and milkshakes are gonna get it, not your friends. How many times have you been on a social media platform such as Instagram these days where you don't see anything?

Ian Morris: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓

Mike Schwartz: And as an artist, how frustrating is that? You've built up this following, you're posting, and your own people in your own city that are supposed to go to the shows aren't able to because they didn't get the message in time. How frustrating. Let's turn it into, how does this tie in, how does my creative control and creative control in general, how does that tie into ⁓ for artists in your eyes?

Ian Morris: Yeah, so this isn't just limited to distribution. There's going to be three paths when a person comes into the app. There's going to be paths that they can take, you know, choosing. So ⁓ products and services distribution, you know, that you can take that approach. ⁓ also an approach that's like an artist portfolio and like a digital business card so that you use it strictly for engagement, awareness and promotions in a different way. You're not eliciting sales. You're going for ⁓ more of an awareness and connecting and networking aspect. And then there's another one that's the experience, which is basically doing something that's more playful, engaging, and a game almost that they can interact with in real time. there's different things that they can do. by doing that, like when you, as an artist, you you can look at, can create as a visual artist, virtual invitation. that goes out just like a static, an IP, like they're logging into like a website or an app. And so then they're able to interact with that. But that experience is going to be given to interact with the exhibit in real time, live, right? So you're looking at something digital coming to the tangible experience in person. And that gives you an idea to, that makes something it's a little different. The viewer can say, know, I've heard about this art show. This has got this interactive component. I'm going to go check this out. And it's a way to get fresh blood into an experience and try to capitalize on more fans, getting more diversity coming in just from something that is just a little different. But also just being able to take control where you're really doing what it is that you want to do. You know, Dr. B and I were talking to artist on the phone and he was talking to us about how the record label wouldn't let him release this album because they felt like it wasn't controversial enough to make sales. And he was saying, I don't really care. This is from my heart and my soul and I want to put this out and touch people and reach people. And so these of experiences, this distribution platform is going to allow people to take that control back and to realize that there's a lot of power in this that we've been told that there's not. But the reason that there is is that it's misleading because that allows the industry to control and things are always as they appear, I'll just say. ⁓ Sometimes sales don't reflect, like you think about Miles Davis kind of blue.

Mike Schwartz: You

Ian Morris: You know, it's one of the most definitive jazz albums of all time. A lot of people say it's a cult classic, that it started a whole new generation of jazz music. But when it first came out, if you looked at the reviews, they were horrible. had nothing really substantiate sales, and it was just not doing well. But over time, it was so minimal and crisp and just new that people embracing it. And then it became this classical...

Mike Schwartz: Mm-hmm.

Ian Morris: album that shaped jazz music in general. just interesting because the industry is always going to clash with innovation and sales, marketing and marketable. But as I think there's more than the greatest hits. There's certain fans out there are going to interact with your B-sides and just have this religious It was meant to to be that and that's all it needed to be. didn't need to be a one hit that ⁓ you millions of dollars. It was something that connected and reminded people that they're human again. ⁓ I don't think every one of our songs is meant to be a hit. I think that we're ⁓ to explore being an artist and develop our styles and explore new things and not be cookie cutters where we have to put out the same album over and over again. So ⁓ think that...

Mike Schwartz: You

Ian Morris: We have to take control because now we start dictating to the listener how it's going to be, you know what saying? Like going back to third eye.

Mike Schwartz: Going back. That's our new goal here. You're only allowed to speak in riddle or third eye blind lyrics. Okay, please.

Ian Morris: Yeah, yeah.

Mike Schwartz: one thing that are right now that you think matters way less than they think?

Ian Morris: AI.

Mike Schwartz: Okay, cool. Dude, I have not been able to get out of a single conversation on this show in the last year, not discussing AI. Should have suspected. dive in. ⁓ me more, explore it.

Ian Morris: Yeah. Thank ⁓ I AI is a great tool. not here bash AI completely, but what I'm trying to help people understand is there's two things. First thing is it costs hundreds of millions of dollars of fundraising to put these things together. ⁓ You know, amount of resources it takes to sustain it, the data, and then to able to put the teams together to the maintenance and, you know, just upkeep of what's happening with AI. And so my question is, why would you start the first and foremost place with art and music to just demolish already struggling community of what we have labeled the struggling, starving artist? Why would you take hundreds of millions of dollars behind you and start here and not start in corporate, not start in medical, not start in the places that are actually going to make you money? And if you ask yourself that question and you... really are honest with yourself, you're going to come to the conclusion that it's to squash the independent press, it's to squash the independent voice, it's to change landscape so that there's more control and the power of companies and governments more than the artist. What do the artists know? They don't know anything. They shouldn't be sharing their mind. So my point is the first thing that I try to get people to really look at. And the second thing is that culture ⁓ You know, art and culture have always clashed. Art has been here to be a subculture from the beginning. It's always to create new perspective, to shake up what feeling society is, and to go against the grain. But when look at the very nature of AI, what it's designed to do is to give you the middle ground, the conservative approach. Like you'll even see when you search topics, I can't give you that information. Oh really? Well I thought you knew everything. Why can't we have this now? So my point is that there is a real control mechanism behind AI. And if you realize that you being an artist, no matter what, like someone could say, well Ian you've created 200 albums in the last 10 years and someone could go on AI and create 200 albums in a week and then go start selling it. And I'm like, but it's different. I was like, because... They're not going to have a person that shows up that has made the music, that has experienced all of the research and development and the experiential with all of these individuals in different countries and be able to learn what is actually taking place in that process and to apply it in a real world setting, a certification, a workshop, an interaction where interacting with those people. ⁓ so again, you come down to it's still going to give you the middle ground of what everyone else likes, the commonality amongst the cream of the crop. not giving you exactly what you want. And then there's an element of it that's the slot machine. Hey, can you make me a picture like this? And it gives you 27 pictures that are close to it, but not just just not exactly what I asked for. ⁓ so and I said, do you think that that's a that's not manufactured like the every time you're putting in that

Mike Schwartz: Yeah.

Ian Morris: that request, it's costing you money. so, you know, it's like, why not just learn how to develop it and not saying don't use AI. I think AI is great for a copy tool and there's different things that you can use that really help independent artists. I up dyslexic. It's been a huge tool for me. I love being able to utilize things with copy or talk to text or, you know, different things that help me be quicker than what would normally be. And I think those are great tools. So I'm not bashing it completely. ⁓ But I just want people to understand that I seriously doubt in my, you know, I'm not the end all, B.O. I don't know everything. I'm not the smartest guy in the room. But what I will say is I don't see the sustainability of being able to do this long term the amount. If people I grew up doing I.T. and I know what those data centers are going to have to change chips and processors and different things every couple of years. the amount of upkeep for the amount of centers that they're wanting to bring in. And you're already starting to see communities say, hey, get that the hell out of here. We don't want that here. It tarnishes the water. just, it's something we want here. So I'm not that AI isn't going to be a part of our future. And I'm not saying that AI is not a good tool. I'm just saying that as a musician, as a creative, I really think there is a lot of value in your personal ⁓ heartfelt emotional response and outpourings that can be utilized into these niches that we're speaking of and these opportunities that we're speaking of to it in a way that is outside, completely outside of the system as we know it today.

Mike Schwartz: Dude, perfect roll into ⁓ where I wanted to go with this. This is brilliant. Take that artist. They're likely, if they're anything like me, ⁓ they to chat. They go to, it used be Google, it used to be a friend before that, you know, and they would, because they felt stuck, What you recommend an feels stuck right now, where should they start?

Ian Morris: We do these workshops that are creative writing workshops to help people have breakthroughs. ⁓ not even talking about creators. I'm talking about people who've never wrote a poem, who've never done artwork. They don't consider themselves a creator. And I'm a really big follower of Neville Goddard. I absolutely love his work and the things that put out into the world. And he said that I am. before any statement you speak of yourself, like if it's, am broke, I am tired, or I am rich, I am abundant, he said the I am is the spell, it's the magic, it's what God gave you to create an amplification. So he said, use it wisely and realize that those words, I am, and whatever you follow it with, are going to be the most creative output that you could ever do, much more than a brush or an instrument or... or anything, right? So it starts, think, in mindset and to realize, like, part of taking your power back is to stop letting other voices infiltrate your creative space that you're using, your canvas, your landscape that you're using to create your pieces. so one of the things that I tell people that have never created anything, the block, deterrent, is that you're afraid it's not going to be good enough or that there's going to be judgment or ridicule from other people. So if we can help them to create something without them feeling like they did it by themselves, so what we do is we have them co-create in this workshop with Spirit. We get four books, books come down, we get a notepad and a pen, and we say, okay, I want you to flip open to the first page, the first word that jumps out, write it down. we're going to write down about 20 of these words that you come to. And I said, don't cheat. If it's murder, death, write it down. I don't care. Whatever word pops out to you first on that page, write it down. And so we have a little circle at the top of the page and we call it a word palette, just like a paint palette, but it's words. You're going to paint with these words. And so they don't choose these words. not invested in these words. Okay. So then what we do is we say now, like refrigerator magnet poetry, I want you to take these words and rearrange them into a title. And so they do that. They arrange it into a title. And so I said, now you have a title that you just co-created just like you would with AI, right? Except you're not invested in this. So I said, if this is bad, just blame spirit. Like I was like, because you're you're not in the driver's seat. You have to surrender control. And so this is a co-creation with you in spirit. So then people that are writers will get that title and just, it's it, ⁓ because was dropped in and not something that they had to prefabricate or think about in any way, it hits differently and it allows them to roll quicker with it because takes ⁓ that responsibility off that engagement. people can write whole poems this way. People can just piece together. And I'll even tell people, don't use all the words that you, if you have things that come from your head, add it to it, know, co-create with it. It's a living, breathing experience. And so by doing these experiences in these workshops, it's like the breakthroughs that happen are unbelievable. And so any artist, say, well, how do you come up with your names of all your albums and your songs? And like, how do you constantly create, create, create? And I said, because I got rid of worrying about what people think and I got rid of realizing that I'm not doing this by myself. I, it's a co-creation just like this workshop, just like the page and you and the book. And it's like all of these different things. Somebody put thousands and millions of hours into the development of the computer that I'm now using this evolution to bring this tool that's bringing all of this music into the world. So it's like, there's so much that we're doing in co-creation that we don't even think about. And so if we just let go. of that control and that responsibility and just realize, let's have fun like a kid and explore. And I think that is where you're always going to find your best work is where you stop giving a about what's happening with anyone's ⁓ or anything. And so that's the first thing. then as far as the industry, I think that you just have to be crazy enough to like, everyone's going this way. And it's like, well,

Mike Schwartz: Yeah.

Ian Morris: Not many people going this way, let's go this way and see what happens, you know? And I think, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think those are the two things I would say.

Mike Schwartz: Mad Max it yeah, that's it. That's it, dude It so much resonates with everything you're saying there too is because we have a similar process. It would be awesome to have you in the group to teach that specifically, Because that's one of biggest pieces that we run into ⁓ we get together. It's pick theme, and I think what you were saying there, set another way, how I've explained it because

Ian Morris: Bye. I'm just.

Mike Schwartz: different than detachment because detachment implies that you were once attached. It's more like an unattachment. Something comes in, you're writing about it. It's kind of like how one of my mentors explained when he tries to get his kids to go to bed, he goes, hey kids, look at the clock. What's the clock say? they're like, nine o'clock. What's that mean? What's ⁓ clock? It's bedtime. It's not dad saying that, it's the clock. So it's like an indirect way of allowing yourself the freedom to just fuck it up. Like because it's not yours, you're not married to it. It wasn't even mine. That's not my, I think we get married to our ideas and they're babies and that's one of the reasons we don't release. I think that's one of the reasons that when we do release, we don't promote abandon or surrender to just letting it just be. As soon as it gets out, you've done your job. I think that's where we get, that's where you get hung up on. So I'm so happy you hit on that. And I love that process. I want to touch in on something that I know of your history ⁓ as a former ball player, the athlete mindset. What would you tell an artist who's looking to build their career and not wanting to burn out? Did you see any parallels between your artistic career, your athletic career, and how one maybe... managed energy better and didn't burn out because I think we're in a fight to the finish line which is actually just a brick wall in many cases in the creative space. We don't have the same kind of system to actually allow for us to build a life worth actually living. So do you have any insight toward that?

Ian Morris: Yeah, so if you look at a lot of the athletes that are on a professional level you're looking at true refinement of because they know it's vital to the evolution of their sport, their craft. So they typically have better sleep. They have a lot of regiment around food and eating and workout and movement. But you see in that world, there's a lot of lack of joy. There's a lot of lack of doing things that happiness to them. And so it's interesting because you'll see players know, like I remember hearing about like Dennis Rodman and some of the parties and things that he would go to and you see like this, you one of my friends called it the beast. Like he was talking about like addictions and different things of like artists and even athletes that they have this absolute regiment and it's so militant that there's no room for joy. And so he said that the beast will always, whether that joy is like, know, doing something to sabotage it, but it's going to make you take those to have those joys because it can't just be locked up for your whole entire life. And so I think like what's interesting is that both of those I see that there is like a lot of artists have that freedom and that expression and that joy, but there's very, very little self-care or regimen or even given, awareness given to how sleep impacts their body. And that's why you see so many musicians dying early, overdosing, ⁓ these horrible conditions as they get older, because there's a And I think if anything, both of those worlds, those industries could learn from each other is that. There's a lot of creative expression and a lot of joy that could be into an athlete's life that ⁓ not be there. I'm not saying it's like that for everyone. ⁓ then the musician's world, I know some fit musicians as well, but I would say as a whole, that industry is taking care of itself very well. So if there was a way for those things to come together, like music fit, then it's ⁓ something really helpful, think, to...

Mike Schwartz: Yeah. you

Ian Morris: for people to see that balance and what it could actually achieve by doing that.

Mike Schwartz: thank you for the plug. dude, that's the point. And I started getting that after ⁓ mutual of ours and friend and mentor of mine of Paul. Paul was, when we talk about Dr. Happy, we talk about the athletes that I working with, I agree with you, man, they were not happy. They did these things as a form of punishment. They had the shit talk. ⁓ I remember being on a ride, even in speed skating, this was later, nevermind the hockey career, but in speed skating career, I remember being on a ride, a cycling ride, we're going up a hill, and I'm hearing this guy from the front of the pack, just swearing at himself, you're such a fucking, what are you, a fucking pussy, just berating himself, and I'm sitting there going, can't, by him, smile on my face. I was one of the weird trainers that was like, okay, so when you squat, that's not helping you, smile.

Ian Morris: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah.

Mike Schwartz: Like just let it go. And we brought a lot of the creative artsy-fartsy stuff into training and guess what? People got better results. They learned more. They had better cognitive retention. Everything happens play. Play is 100 % the secret drug. You know, that and sleep. ⁓ ⁓ those two worlds together makes what I would consider a pretty whole, unique, creative, ambitious human being.

Ian Morris: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓

Mike Schwartz: like unstoppable, undeniable even. And I think you're a great example. There's no human on the planet that I would put up against you in, comes close to your consistency, dude. 10 years, give ⁓ somebody who even comes close to an album a for fucking 10 years. I don't even know, that's athletic mindset. That's like that I'm driven on it, but you were still having fun.

Ian Morris: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓

Mike Schwartz: It's your lifeblood, man. That's the thing that brings you most joy. You wake up going like cartwheels out of the bed for it. People don't do that, in the sports world. So I think there's a lot of value there. Now segue into like wrapping it up here, with my creative control, is that for every artist out there? Who's it really for?

Ian Morris: So right now we're just starting with invitation only. it's that whole rigmarole, right? But the reason is that we want to start and build it to something. We believe that we... really have something here. It's been a lot of fun to develop and we really want to take our time and work with artists that are 100 % committed to that focus of the tangible, experiential and delivering direct to consumer. But it's something that we're going to grow and I'm hoping within the next year we'll be able to open it up to more artists. But ⁓ I'm looking for in the beginning is we're looking for people that have communities. Whether that ⁓ like Paul Cech's community or, ⁓ it can be anything an author, musician, a poet, just a creative person in general, entrepreneur. ⁓ So we're for people that have communities that want to bring these experiences to play with their communities. And while it earns value and it also earns income for them, ⁓ but it gives them a distribution outside of the traditional models. And it gives them a they're in control of the experience. They get to customize it 100%. And someone asked, is this all AI? No, it's not. We're going to use AI when people are wanting those tools. We have them. We know how to use them. But we're really wanting to focus on more of the human experience and to create direct to consumer experiences that are relating back, that are having that. that tangible synergistic expression between the creator and the fan or the client.

Mike Schwartz: Love that man. Where can people find your work and connect with you?

Ian Morris: So listeningtosmile.com, that's the first website, then the second website is mycreativectrl.com. So yeah, so mycreativectrl, control spelled like the control button on the know? Yeah,

Mike Schwartz: CTRL. I love what you're doing, It's really, really great. And I think what you offer, I like it a lot that it's invite. I like that it's this, it's going to change the game. ⁓ I know ⁓ And you know, just like, yeah, this guy's the If Ian's doing I'm telling you, this guy, he's the only guy.

Ian Morris: Thank

Mike Schwartz: I'm just so fortunate you made the time here to speak to me about the new project. I'll make sure everything is in the show notes for folks. Any final thoughts for artists trying to navigate this all right now?

Ian Morris: I just think the community that you've created with MusicFit and then also the venture that you guys are doing with the community aspect there is what people need to be plugging into. I think the it by is, you know, I've done for, you know, 20 years and I'm just telling you it the hell out of me. So ⁓ You might as well face the fact that we're going to get further together than we are by ourselves. so there's a lot of opportunities now. People realize they can only know what they know and they can only do what they do. And so we start putting together these expressions and these skill sets. And as long as there's heart and there's open communication, I feel like it's always going to be a win-win. So I'm encouraging to find their... ⁓ their home, their community to work with and start creating these universes together.

Mike Schwartz: Thank you so much for sharing your love, your energy, your light, your time, ⁓ Thank you so much, dude.

Ian Morris: Thank you, man.